I missed a commemoration...
July 31 was the 35th anniversary of Operation Motorman, which ended the no-go autonomous zones of Free Derry and the New Lodge area of Belfast. It was during this operation that 15 year old Daniel Hegarty, a civilian, and 19 year old Seamus Bradley, an IRA volunteer, were killed by the British forces. So here's to remembering that brief three year period when there were free zones in Northern Ireland. Considering the special powers that Gypo Gerry has allowed the PSNI and British forces of Operation Helvetica to be granted, it won't happen again.
posted by Burntdisk @ 7:25 AM
17 Comments:
The Bogside will always be free.
I also loved how you had to slam Gerry even after you admitted it only lasted 3 years and that was well before any work with the police my friend.
It's not Gerry stopping an autonomous zone from forming again, it's the people not wanting to be isolated any longer.
It was only free for 3 years because the Brits decided it had to stop. The fact that they got 3 years in the first place is friggin' amazing. And the work with the police includes the right to stop anyone, anywhere, at any time, and hold them without charge. Sounds like the Special Powers Act to me. Bet Gerry's sorry they shut down the Maze now...
And the whole damn country should be an autonomous zone, but it's not... thanks to Gerry...
You can't possibly believe that it's all Gerry's fault...
No, but he is the guy in charge, therefore, like the military, it's all his fault.
Ahhh, you're forgetting, Gerry's never been in the IRA. =) He's like any politician and can't be held to military standards, right?
You do believe that Gerry was nothing more than a politician and certainly not a military man, right? I think I remember you saying all that gob.
I didn't say he WAS in the military. What I was trying to say was that in government, like in the Army, the fuckups of your subordinates are reflected on you as a superior officer. Gerry runs SF, supposedly the most powerful Republican organization (I have issues with Republican, not most powerful). Therefore, since he signed off on PSNI and Paisley, their anti-human actions are his.
Oh, and I'm not the one who said he wasn't IRA, you were. I said he was a self-serving REMF who liked to sell his men out...
If I've ever said I believed Gerry wasn't in the IRA it was with tongue fully in cheek.
I thought I remembered a conversation where you did not think Gerry earned any credibility with "the dogs on the street" (military men) because he was just sitting back, and not making any REAL sacrifice.
I just believe that his position in both organizations do obviously make him responsible for things that happen, but with a tenuous balance between the ballot box and the armalite, he has a tough job. Since the army council has such a fluid membership quality, things change, and quick. While I do blame him for somethings, I don't think it's fair make him the scapegoat for his comrades in this kind of conflict. Basically, I think the rules dictating that the leader of the party take all responsibility doesn't fit into this type of conflict. There's just too many variables involved for me to do that.
While I understand your frustration about seemingly little success, I just don't think it's productive to blame it all on Gerry, and overlook some of the real problems.
Adams has never been linked to a single operation, though it was said that his fingerprints were found on the car used in the Cecil Cunningham and John Haslett killings. He was arrested for membership, not even for firearm possession. He's a politico, not a soldier. He sat on his ass and sent men possibly to their deaths.
And I suppose next you'll be saying that Bush isn't responsible for the war in Iraq?
Yes, that's the argument I'm talking about. The very nature of this struggle wouldn't allow you to know what he's done, and when.
No, what I am saying is that the struggle of the IRA can not be compared, and held to the same standards, of a "normal" war. The same rules do not apply because the nature is very different.
(cough)bullshit(cough) We know what Lynagh did, what Caraher did, what South did, what Connolly did, etc...
So, the Revolutionary War here in the States, or the Vietnam War, were also different wars, right? Therefore, nobody should have been blamed for for the British and Indian massacres of whole villages, or for My Lai (and no, I don't think Calley was the root of it- punishment didn't go up the ladder far enough)? Nor should the Green Mountain boys have been recognized for their bravery, or any of the men who won Silver Stars in Vietnam...
Yer playin' a fine line here between war, freedom struggle and conflict...
I don't look at it as playing a thin line, because it IS a thin line.
Blaming an individual for a systematic failure does nothing to rectify the situation. That is why these types of things continue to happen in Iraq, Cuba, and Afghanistan ect. Scapegoats, no matter how big a fist still only punishes one person when it was an entire system that was responsible.
I suppose a differing example would be the Abu Gahrib incidents.
Gerry was party of a powerful 7 people. To blame him and to not hold to account the others is the true injustice.
Gerry is the face of SF. Gerry is the one signing off on the documents allowing PSNI, MI5 presence and Ian Paisley. Do we blame the DoD for the Iraqi war? No, we blame the President. May be wrong, but that's how it works. I agree that the rest of the SF heads are a bunch of nitwits, if only for allowing Gerry to do what he likes, but he's still the guy with the pen.
What about Martin McGuinness then?
For lettin' Gerry have his way, he's a nitwit, too. And possibly, though I hate to admit it, a tout.
Ok, I understand that you're against SF's policy.
What do you think should be done, and I don't mean what SHOULDN'T have been done.
Should have been done- place an independent as head of Stormont, neither Republican nor Loyalist. Form a NEW police force with no ties to the RUC, and background checks for abuse of civilians if you let any PSNI in. Complete separation from England. Tell MI5 to take their goddamn ball and go home. Not give the few soldiers left in Ireland Internment Era Special Powers Act rights. And not give the Loyalists any money, plus punishments and campaigns as harsh for them as those currently going on for Republicans- after all, they're on the losing side, and attempting to keep those ties to England is not just ridiculous but actually dangerous to the freedom of NI.
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